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Author:  John Mayes [ Fri May 13, 2005 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
HAS to be this one! I just wanted to say thanks to Lance, Brock et all for
the great forum. This forum is the best one out there by far. Way better
than the MIMF and it's 72.573 billion rules (ok so maybe not that many
but it sure seems that way to me... well that and Deb thinks I'm a
"slimeball" a "man of poor character" and one who "may lie as well as
steal"..ahh but that's another story..lol), better than anyone I've seen.

Great community. Great information. Great fun.

Great Job guys!
Author:  Jeff Doty [ Fri May 13, 2005 3:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
John,

I agree 100%! The OLF is awesome!

Sorry to hear that you are thought of in a negative light at the MIMF. I know they didn't like your circle cutter setup on the 1st video, but hey that was not a deliberate attempt to harm anyone. So, I guess I don't understand why you would have bad standing there?

I gotta' tell ya', I feel exactly the opposite concerning you. In fact, I was going to start a "praise for John Mayes" (hey, that rhymes )thread to thank you. Your willingness to share your knowledge has probably cut months or years off of my learning curve. I have not recieved any hands on instruction from anyone, so your videos are an extremely valuable resources. Reading about how to do something, and actually seeing someone do it, are worlds apart. And, you strike me as a very honest, straight-forward person who likes to have fun. Just the kind of person I like to support with my words, actions, and pocket-book!

Hope to actually meet you someday.

Jeff
Author:  John Mayes [ Fri May 13, 2005 3:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jeff,

Thanks for the kind words. "they" (Meaning Deb Mainly) does not like me
because I sent out a bunch of e-mails to lots of luthiers (many of which
were MIMF members) just advertising my DVD's. Deb went crazy and
tried to get my e-mail account banned from my ISP (did not work), and
Banned me from her forum (I didn't post there anyway because of her),
and has since proceeded to bad talk me whenever she finds the
opportunity.

As for the first video I edited it a long time ago so that the scene where I
cut out the soundhole is cut, and states to make sure to clamp the
workboard down, but Deb continues to say that it is unsafe although she
has no first hand knowledge (in fact I've shown her clips that prove
otherwise yet she says she will continue her efforts against me.) I have no
problem admitting when I am wrong, and when it was brought to my
attention that that particular scene could be potentially unsafe, I was
quick to do what I could to make sure no one could even possibly be
injured. No one wants that, most of all me.

But whatever. So goes life. I just know that this forum is 10X better than
the MIMF, and I appreciate the wonderful community here, and I believe it
will continue to grow to the point it will be the largest. That was my point
sorry for the tangent.John Mayes38486.0291087963
Author:  LanceK [ Fri May 13, 2005 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks John - and Jeff -
Glad you guys like it here -   
Author:  bob J [ Fri May 13, 2005 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
MIMF really p++++++ me off. When Tracy started his new company I posted info that he had the best sanding bowls and the best price around. Was not allowed to be posteed. That's why you guys are stuck with me. Just courious, why no female luthiers here?
Author:  LanceK [ Fri May 13, 2005 11:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
There are a few female Luthiers - browse the Members page and you'll see. Kathy Matsushita use to visit at the old site once in a while. Somebody should invite Kathy Wingert.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Fri May 13, 2005 11:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree with John and Jeff.

This is the best forum going! No doubt about it.

Deb also p+++++ me off. She called me disingenuous(sp) because I tried to get some comments when I got my new web page up. She deleted the thread and sent me a nasty email.

I posted the same thing here and received numerous feedbacks and helpful thoughts for over a dozen members.

You tell me which sounds like the better forum.

P.S. Last time I went over to MIMF I saw yet another post from Deb regarding John and it just burned me that she won't let it go.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Sat May 14, 2005 12:24 am ]
Post subject: 
I'll second all those sentiments. This is the only forum that I go to with any regularity, though I have not had much time to come here recently since the OLF was blocked at work. If we could change the URL one more time I could get back on there for a while.

But no matter. I retire in 10 days, and will be building guitars full time and should have time to wait while dial up loads the pages

John
Author:  LanceK [ Sat May 14, 2005 12:25 am ]
Post subject: 
John - Congratulations on your going FULL TIME! I hope you enjoy your new Job! Ill look into a URL change
Author:  Jeff Doty [ Sat May 14, 2005 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=John Kinnaird] But no matter. I retire in 10 days, and will be building guitars full time and should have time to wait while dial up loads the pages

John[/QUOTE]

COOL! Congratulations John. It will be great seeing you here more, and seeing more of your guitars.

Jeff
Author:  Pwoolson [ Sat May 14, 2005 12:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, this is by far the best forum out there. I've been to them all and this one is the only one that has REAL people that are honest and kind. And best of all it costs $0. YES, I JUST POSTED A PRICE!!!!
John, I looked at the circle cutting thread as I've found an awesome way (micro fence) to do them and like to share it with anyone concerned. Deb posted something like "don't do it the way Jonh Mayes does, it's unsafe". Having not seen your videos, I was truly curious what you could possibably be doing that was so unsafe that she pulled it from nowhere and posted that comment. So I asked. She then went on about you not clamping your board down...She's definately got a beef with you. What a lonely, lonely bitter woman. And it's a shame because back in the day she was one of the "it" women in lutherie.
So Lance, thanks for your hard work. Brock too. And the other "behing the scenes" people. Your work is much appreciated.
Author:  John Mayes [ Sat May 14, 2005 1:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Congratulations John!!! Look forward to seeing you around here more
often!! Have fun building!
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sat May 14, 2005 1:45 am ]
Post subject: 
This forum's got the best community feel going, hands down, and the least restrictive rules, open to everyone, all that. A great place to come and learn, share and discuss.

This said, just to balance things out a little, the MIMF has plenty, no, a LOT to offer, and there are some great folks there (some of the same folk that hang around here, too). If you build electrics, acoustics, any other kind of instrument, and particularly if you're just starting out, the library is fantastic resource. Well organized, maintained, indexed and relatively easily searchable.

However, the forum rules do mean it's difficult to discuss pricing, and anything regarding personal websites if they're at all commercial (Sorry Dave, but knowing Deb's policies, thinking you could get away with asking for opinions/feedback on your commercial website's design seems a tad naive to me. Probably would be a way to get around it, discuss general marketing/design/whatever, but I think it would be one of those 'ask first, then post' kinds of things)

Personally, I've never, ever had a problem reccomending a certain company or product; that's fine, just don't link to 'em, and if you're not selling the stuff, no harm, no foul. Long as you make that clear, you're fine. Yes, it's a pain, but it seems to work for Deb, and at the end of the day, it is her forum. I've never had a problem with her, and I have gotten a lot back from the MIMF and it's members, and I continue to read and post to both boards, because both places, and the people who post there, have a lot to offer.

I get more out of this place where acoustic guitars are concerned, though, has to be said, and it's nice not to have to think about what prices/specs/whatnot I can or can't post...
Author:  FrankC [ Sat May 14, 2005 1:55 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with the group. This is hands down the best site out there. Lance and crew do a great job. Not only that, but all the people on the site who sell are fantastic to deal with. From Brian Hawkins to Steve Roberson to the Zootman to Ed Dicks to John Mayes and the list goes on and on. Its nice to know that there are honest people out there. Well, except maybe John...HAHA!
Author:  John Mayes [ Sat May 14, 2005 3:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Mattia,

For sure the MIMF is a great resource for lots of information. There is no
doubt about that. I just find this place to be much more welcoming and
open.

haha.. frank.. you kidder you...
Author:  Roy O [ Sat May 14, 2005 4:01 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm with Mattia on this one. The MIMF is well organized, easy to navigate and if you want to research a topic before asking a question, probably the best place on the internet to do so. On top of that it has many knowledgeable members willing to help out when you do need advice.

Deb runs a tight ship but it's her ship and all she asks is that you follow her rules (which are posted there). This seems to upset people from time to time but for the service she provides I don't feel that's too much to ask. As for being "a lonely, lonely bitter woman", I don't know her personally nor have I met her so I can't attest to this one way or another. I have had contact with her via internet though and in this I've always found her to be prompt and helpful. For the incredible site she's put together and all the help I've gotten from it, she has my respect.

That said, this is the site I frequent most often. I like the people here, the openness of the forum and there's lots of information to be had.

Thank you Lance, Brock and all others who've contributed to making this a great forum.
Author:  Mario [ Sat May 14, 2005 4:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, if you're after hard facts and great information, the MIMF is unbeatable. Deb runs a tight ship, but she runs it fair and pulls no favorites. If she sees something unsafe, she calls it. If she feels someone used her forum to gather e-mail addresses to spam folks, she'll say it. She runs it like a business, which, if it is to run efficiently, is not always pretty. Not everyone likes strict rules; that's fine and understandable.

If you're after a group-hug type atmosphere and friendship while gathering some information, this is the place. This place is looser with fewer rules, which sometimes makes for a lot of junk and chatter to wade through. Some love this place for this 'loose' atmosphere, others think it rather silly and amost child-ish; again, perfectly understandable.

What I don't understand is why some feel the need to have a 'best' of this or that, and poo-poo on the ones he/she doesn't agree with.

Why does there have to be a "best"? Why not use all(there are many other luthier forums, too, that offer yet more outlooks)? Like any other tool(a forum is but a tool, after all), it's silly to limit yourself to just one, right?
Author:  EBarajas [ Sat May 14, 2005 4:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I like MIMF, but I like OLF better. Thanks Lance!
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Sat May 14, 2005 4:56 am ]
Post subject: 
like mario said.

at times i thinks mimf's rules are too rigid, e.g. a post was not permitted to adverise the benefit auction held not long ago by this forum which was not a commercial operation but rather a charitable one.

but the rules seem to be applied without fear or favour, as they say.

and it you want to advertise there, just pay the tab and
get an ad.

Author:  John Mayes [ Sat May 14, 2005 4:59 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Mario] What I don't understand is why some feel the need to
have a 'best' of this or that, and poo-poo on the ones he/she doesn't
agree with.[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone is "poo-poo" (have not said that word in a while) on
anything. We are all just stating our opinions here. It is of my opinion
that the OLF is the best ("best" being subjective of course) forum in
cyber-space. I read things over at the mimf, and still check in there from
time to time (I can't post cause she banned me but I never really posted
anyway I just read so the ban does not really affect me) Because, like I
said, the MIMF does have a wealth of information. I don't like Deb
personally, and she feels the same about me I'm sure. That's fine..no skin
off my back, I just wanted to say thanks to Lance for a fine forum, and it
got off track (I started rambling when I should have stuck to the topic so
it is my fault).

And yeah Mario it would be silly to limit yourself to just one. I don't think
anyone here is saying to do that. At least I'm not. I just stated my
(biased of course) opinion that the OLF rocks. That's me. That's my
opinion, everyone elses may differ or be the same. Does not matter.
Author:  WalterK [ Sat May 14, 2005 5:19 am ]
Post subject: 
I have said this in the past and I'll say it again..You folks on this Forum are the very BEST of friends anyone can ask for!!
Generous and always helpful. Lance is to be Praised for his
wisdom and insight by producing such a wonderful place to call HOME!!
I love you guys!
Kindest Regards, WalterK
Author:  Paul Schulte [ Sat May 14, 2005 5:48 am ]
Post subject: 
      I don't post a lot but cruise thru the usual sites. I'm always looking for new ideas and methods, you never know where they may come from. If someone asks a question that hasn't been addressed for the zillionth time anywhere else I may chip in.
Author:  L. Presnall [ Sat May 14, 2005 5:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Met John last week...great guy...like him...never met Deb...slammed a post of mine on MIMF once...didn't hurt tho...kinda TO'd that she removed a latin phrase meaning "work is prayer" from a member's post last week...I think you guys are right about it being her sandbox and she can set whatever rules she likes, but MIMF's just kind of oppressive compared to OLF...I'll just stick with John, Lance, and all you guys here and say "Thanks again" for all the info and wisdom you continue to give me!
Author:  Dave Rector [ Sat May 14, 2005 8:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Mattia, I see your point about my post. Although there was no listing of my address in the post itself. Guess Deb can do whatever she wants, it IS her site.

I also agree with Mario. I bounce around to all the forums, Deb's included, and there is a wealth of information to be had. Too much sometimes.

I guess what I meant to say is I feel the most comfortable on the OLF. I don't feel like I have to "watch my back" while I'm here.
Author:  Don A [ Sat May 14, 2005 9:11 am ]
Post subject: 
I always log on to the OlF, but only occasionally to MIMF. Each has its own merits. There is a tremendous amount of information available in the archives at the MIMF. In contrast, there is a real commradarie at the OLF. With a few exceptions, most of the builders here are relatively new at the craft. This gives us an opportunity to learn together and share our failures and successes and to get valuable input from our experts. I've been a member here for a couple of years, old software days, and have watched the OLF grow in membership and available info. I'm sure it will continue to get better and better. There are lots of available forums but not enough time to follow them all. I am happy to make the OLF my priority. Lance, did you have any idea 2 years ago that the OLF would have progressed this far?    
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